Comments on: Start with something simple http://leansoftwareengineering.com/2007/04/24/start-with-something-simple/ Essays on the Continuous Delivery of High Quality Information Systems Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:08:24 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Corey Ladas http://leansoftwareengineering.com/2007/04/24/start-with-something-simple/comment-page-1/#comment-2417 Corey Ladas Mon, 12 May 2008 17:31:54 +0000 http://leansoftwareengineering.com/2007/04/24/start-with-something-simple/#comment-2417 Perhaps you misunderstand my point. Dijkstra's opinion about unit testing is not really relevant to the history of the development of the idea of correctness by construction. He might not have cared for some of the directions that the idea took, but that does not change the facts of history. If you read the paragraph that you quoted a little more carefully, I am suggesting that people who are unit testing today can move in the direction of greater rigor if they understand the origin of the practice of test-driven development. Do you think that Dijkstra would have approved of a suggestion that people should be more formal in their approach? What would you suggest to the contemporary TDD user? Perhaps you misunderstand my point. Dijkstra’s opinion about unit testing is not really relevant to the history of the development of the idea of correctness by construction. He might not have cared for some of the directions that the idea took, but that does not change the facts of history.

If you read the paragraph that you quoted a little more carefully, I am suggesting that people who are unit testing today can move in the direction of greater rigor if they understand the origin of the practice of test-driven development. Do you think that Dijkstra would have approved of a suggestion that people should be more formal in their approach? What would you suggest to the contemporary TDD user?

]]> By: L505 http://leansoftwareengineering.com/2007/04/24/start-with-something-simple/comment-page-1/#comment-2406 L505 Fri, 09 May 2008 21:12:50 +0000 http://leansoftwareengineering.com/2007/04/24/start-with-something-simple/#comment-2406 "If you are feeling scholarly, Edsger W. Dijkstra’s 1976 book, A Discipline of Programming, explains a design process which is very clearly the origin of both TDD and Design by Contract. I like to think of TDD as Design by Contract for Dummies, and DbC as Formal Specification for Dummies, so if you’re looking for an opportunity to upgrade your practice, implementing Design by Contract would be an excellent start. And remember, the way to do DbC right is write your postconditions first!" You ought to do some research and you are taking Dijkstra very out of context - because Dijkstra was violently against "unit testing" and "testing programs". “If you are feeling scholarly, Edsger W. Dijkstra’s 1976 book, A Discipline of Programming, explains a design process which is very clearly the origin of both TDD and Design by Contract. I like to think of TDD as Design by Contract for Dummies, and DbC as Formal Specification for Dummies, so if you’re looking for an opportunity to upgrade your practice, implementing Design by Contract would be an excellent start. And remember, the way to do DbC right is write your postconditions first!”

You ought to do some research and you are taking Dijkstra very out of context – because Dijkstra was violently against “unit testing” and “testing programs”.

]]> By: Lean Software Engineering http://leansoftwareengineering.com/2007/04/24/start-with-something-simple/comment-page-1/#comment-19 Lean Software Engineering Mon, 30 Apr 2007 15:53:40 +0000 http://leansoftwareengineering.com/2007/04/24/start-with-something-simple/#comment-19 <strong>Avoid dogma when herding cats...</strong> So that’s why XP and TSP are great, but starting with something simple like Scrum can be great advice. That, and avoid dogma when helping your cats to herd themselves. ...... Avoid dogma when herding cats…

So that’s why XP and TSP are great, but starting with something simple like Scrum can be great advice. That, and avoid dogma when helping your cats to herd themselves.
……

]]> By: coreyl http://leansoftwareengineering.com/2007/04/24/start-with-something-simple/comment-page-1/#comment-12 coreyl Tue, 24 Apr 2007 17:02:13 +0000 http://leansoftwareengineering.com/2007/04/24/start-with-something-simple/#comment-12 Firstly, thank you for the comment. Let me clarify some terminology. I am using the words "acceptance test" here in the XP sense i.e. functional verification and validation of a single user story. So I'm suggesting inserting additional design verification between unit testing and story testing. Perhaps you had another definition in mind? Firstly, thank you for the comment. Let me clarify some terminology. I am using the words “acceptance test” here in the XP sense i.e. functional verification and validation of a single user story. So I’m suggesting inserting additional design verification between unit testing and story testing. Perhaps you had another definition in mind?

]]> By: Adam http://leansoftwareengineering.com/2007/04/24/start-with-something-simple/comment-page-1/#comment-11 Adam Tue, 24 Apr 2007 16:05:39 +0000 http://leansoftwareengineering.com/2007/04/24/start-with-something-simple/#comment-11 Putting threat modeling right before acceptance testing is a waste of time. There's no time to fix the design problems you're likely to encounter. Putting threat modeling right before acceptance testing is a waste of time. There’s no time to fix the design problems you’re likely to encounter.

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